sig rattler vs springfield saint

They said nothing as short as the rattler. The Rattler has a one in five twist rate. One of the ways that we suspect the suggested retail price of the Saint was held down was by utilizing an A1 front-sight assembly. Given the test barrel used to produce this data was likely 20 inches or more in length, we think this was still somewhat out of spec. All in, our CMMG rifle displayed 1-MOA accuracy on average for all shots fired, despite our difficulties with the trigger. Additionally, given the use of heavier bullets (200-grains plus and thereabouts), the loads have a smaller powder charge compared to their supersonic counterparts. Their latest addition is the Saint Edge PDW AR pistol, and Im sure it will get its large slice of the AR pie. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. I was a big Sig fan , After buyig the 1st Tread M400 , I had the Tread 5.56 Pistol on my list , then the Tread 716I - .308 AR-10 , But when I went to buy the tread M400 5.56 pistol I looked at the Springfield Saint 300 Black out . But there are a few key reasons why the .30-caliber is better suited for compact ARs. Sig Sauer The AR Pistol Afield. Whereas there is nothing special about the front sight, buttstock, or handguard, upgrades to the magazine release, safety levers, and the bolt catch are more expensive to manufacture or supply than a fancy handguard or buttstock. Wow just read the article on TTAG. A staff member recently paid $2300 for a complete AR-15 carbine without regret. We liked this because it simply wipes clean, making it easy to keep track of debris buildup and wear. The M400 tread is sort of a gimmicky rifle from Sig. To keep my support hand from creeping up on the muzzle, I added an M-LOK-compatible Kinesthetic Angled Grip (KAG) from Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) to the forend. As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. At the gun expo my wife shoot the Orange in 40 cal and she made me shoot it which at the time I wasn't interested in doing , we had two tickets left for ammo so I got in line and lets say after shooting it and hitting metal 10 out 10 I was impressed , I have never shoot any thing as smooth as butter , the gun just was a work of metal and design . The result was sub-MOA groups (less than 1 inch center to center) from two of the five test ammunitions, including our lightest bullet and our heaviest. That said, neither of the suppressors was really quiet. And yet, accuracy from the bench was on par with our other test carbines. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Apr 24, 2017 AC63A5C8-2987-40EB-B654-CFB78764D21B_1530751250330.jpeg. That said, like every cartridge, it gains velocity out of longer barrels to a certain point. Probably 2k rounds through it and has always gone bang. As for Springfields PDW, it is an AR, so it has familiar controls. The only mistake Springfield made on an otherwise terrific design, was to have the hand guard ride over the threads. It also directs sound and blast forward, away from the shooter and provides some flash reduction. Learn how your comment data is processed. I have a lot of love for my BCM because it was my first full build but the Saint is a great rifle off the shelf. Handguards are now modular platforms for lights, lasers, and sights, and ambidextrous fire controls are becoming more popular as well. (Tie) B&T .45 2. Pretty standard, yes, but the 5.56 rendition comes with Springfields forward blast diverter. Somy wife and i was having lunch with the Sig rep. and I asked about the .308 maybe coming out in the tread And he said soon which it did . No, but it was never designed to be. For example, Ive seen U.S. Department of State Diplomatic Security Service special agents wielding them in the field when guarding high-value targets. There was another location for a QD sling from either side at the rear of the receiver just below where the buffer tube was attached. Top 5 Suppressor Brands - Firearms News That saint victor is 400 above msrp though. Maximum bullet weight was considered to be 69 grains. Now weve got Springfields PDW in a similarly sized envelope, namely albeit chambered in 5.56 NATO. JavaScript is disabled. MCX or Saint - Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association However, the company Match Duo, with a 5.5 break, does a much better job of getting the most out of the pistol. One new winner* is announced every week! Springfield Armory of Illinois has been producing its own versions of the iconic M1A rifle for many years, but Springfield, like several other manufacturers, is known primarily as makers of handguns, or for that matter bolt-action rifles. The issue is, get it wrong, send a bullet yawling at the muzzle and youre contending with endcap and baffle strikes in your suppressor. Camp Guns: Sometimes Perfect, Other Times Not But Often Essential! These guns eventually faded awaypartially because of their ammunition and because it was easier to use a variant of the M4 Carbinebut the need did not. From the 100-yard line, the Saint delivered 1.0-inch five-shot groups with the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max, 69-grain OTM rounds, and the 77-grain TMK ammunition. A light, compact AR pistol in the right caliber is easy to carry for long distances . Before we jump headlong into what the market holds, perhaps we should touch upon why you might want to go a 300 Blackout pistol. Gun Review: SIG SAUER MCX Rattler SBR - The Truth About Guns The new big bore pistols feature industry-first capacity, with a standard 15-round capacity and 22+1 rounds of 10mm or 18+1 rounds of .45 ACP from the extended magazines. One by-product of this arrangement was an extension of the lower portion of the bolt lock/release lever. I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. Our Team Said: When it comes to paying more for a rifle, or any firearm for that matter, its easy to check off a list of features to justify a higher price tag. Here are my personal Pros & Cons of the Saint Victor (FEATURELESS, CA Compliant version) Pros: - Comes with basic flip-up sights ready to go out of box - Full length M-Lok rail slots (TREAD seems to stop 8/10 of the way from the front) - Lighter Cons: - $1400+tax - 2 port MB rather than M400's 3 port (any difference in felt recoil?) With the brace collapsed, it is just 18.75 inches long. The $1000 CMMG Mk4T may still use the M1 buttstock and grip, but the 416 stainless-steel barrel offered a 1:7 twist on the inside and a bead-blast finish on the outside. Indoors, every load produced visible flash, but premium ammo gave me a small, manageable flash. This website contains many older reviews. In our view, the advertising campaign that preceded the Saints introduction underscored that the AR-15 is not just for the military. After our run with the Saint, all three targets showed five hits. Thoughts on MCX Rattler Canebrake. 300AAC | SIG Talk While the plastic handguard and the buttstock showed a little bit of play, fit and function of the more important parts of the M400 Classic were exceptional. Thats pretty much what youd expect from a V-MAX. Even knowing how short the barrel is, I was surprised at the low velocities nothing produced over 2,000 feet per second (fps), not even Black Hills hot 50-grain Optimized TSX load. The idea was to replace 9mm submachine guns for support troops and special operations units with something more powerful that wasnt a full-sized, Tactical Life Gun Magazine: Gun news, gun reviews and gun magazines for gun enthusiasts, military and law enforcement, You use of this website constitutes and manifests your acceptance of our, ENTER TO WIN > Free Gun Friday for your chance to WIN the SIG Sauer P320 AXG Legion and Black Hills HoneyBadger Ammo, Anderson Manufacturing Kiger-9c Pro: Upgrades and EDC Ready, Stow it and Go: The Volquartsen 22 LR VT2 Takedown Rifle. Nice Sig collection BET7, And I also play the field , I really like my Black Rain Ordnance 5.56 , I would like to add a couple more Black Rains to my collection . SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. The Rattler is, essentially, as. JavaScript is disabled. Bob Meinert, FN Marketing Director, introduces FN's first commercial pistol suppressor, the FN Rush 9Ti. You have entered an incorrect email address! and our Maybe they will give me some clarity. Colt Model 1861 Special Musket: What's Its Value? Sig M400 tread or Springfield saint victor : r/ar15 - reddit As to the brace, its a Tailhook Mod 2, an adjustable model that does an excellent job of settling in the gun. I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. However, the range in resistance spanned from about 6.75 pounds to almost 8.0 pounds. Bought separately, the SCW (with this H3 buffer) retails for $590. The lower is mil-spec, so an upper change is no different than any other lower. To activate it from either side of the gun, I mounted its tape switch on the Rattlers Picatinny top rail. When you authored this on 24 March 2020, SIG announced the 716I Tread for civilian sale which is the same rifle minus select fire, 1913 rails on the handguards 6', and an M-Lok Bayonet lug. It's basically a bcm with the Saint logo on it. So me and the wife was going to the local gun shop so I could buy my Springfield Hellcat RDP , While I was doing my paper work the wife was looking around and was checking out some hand guns she was looking at the CZ's They had the Shadow 2 orange in 9mm $1,900 . Thanks Bio. Instead of a GI-pattern charging handle, the PDW sports Springfields midsize charging handle, which is substantially larger than the GI model. Honestly, theres not a ton to ballyhoo on the pistol other than it runs, dependably so. It's perfect for sporting or home defense with high reliability and some furniture and trigger upgrades that set it apart from other budget AR-15s. This is a 100-yard rifle. The 3rd pic is the new Snakebite M400 5.56 Rifle , But It's a stock photo . At the Impact Zone Range, our rifles shared a $420 1x20mm SIG Sauer Romeo 4b Compact Scope with a tiny 2-minute-of-angle red dot. The heavier 120- to 125-grain loads performed similarly. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD. and the had the CZ Parrot checkmate 9mm $3,299. Please keep us posted. In the same breath, the gun is compact enough to enhance its nimbleness, yet big enough to ensure the cartridges ballistic integrity. Featured one of the most consistent triggers weve tried and costly ambidextrous controls. Hay Talyn, The 1st pic is of the new Switchblade 5.56 Pistol , Which is a real pic from the LGS. I got the email also Bio. All three-rifle barrels were marked 5.56 NATO. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. However, if youre shooting supersonic, its right on target. Both rifles have a similar price, $809 for the Saint with discount code and $799 for the Tread. Sig Sauer SIGMCX Rattler 300 AAC Blackout PMCX-300B-5B-TAP-PSB vs Supporter+. But thats what your 20-inch barreled baby is for, right? I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. There was, however, a relief on each side of the handguard about 2.5 inches ahead of the receiver for attaching a quick detach (QD) button-style sling loop. Both companies have reputations for occasional issues with their QC, but Sig certainly produces a higher tier product overall. SAINT VICTOR PIST 300BLK 30+1. Dependent on load, firearm and environment, expect anywhere from a 250 fps to 350 fps difference between the lengths. I would really like to hear from you guys who have had access and range time with these MSR's. With the brace fully extended, the pistol is 23.5-inches in length. The BCM Gunfighter grip provided a steeper angle than the others, including the Magpul grip found on the M400. Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. The barrel is only 5.5 inches longsomething unthinkable with a direct-impingement AR. Minuteman. During our action tests, we found the fixed front sight a little distracting, even though we had it aligned (co-witnessed) with our Romeo4 red-dot sight. Also, unlike the HK MP7 and FN P90, you can actually buy a Springfield Armory PDW. The Judge has been promoted! ". Soldiers and law enforcement who wear plates or body armor might not complain about the bare-plastic buttplate, but most shooters will want something more friendly. The Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW brings to mind a saying from Rush Limbaugh: Illustrating absurdity by being absurd. It offers, at least when compared to a standard rifle/carbine, compromised ballistics and a nearly comical appearance, and I havent done executive protection work in quite some time. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Anything beyond 100 yards and that starts to fade. Saint Victor .308 competition | The Armory Life Forum The buttstock was properly applied and showed only the slightest wiggle. Specs and Features Parts are straight off the "recommended" list, as Saint uses an M16-profile USGI-spec bolt carrier group with a select Carpenter 158 bolt. Top 300 Blackout Pistol Options For Every Budget, 5 Best AR-10 Options You Can Actually Afford (2023), Best .380 Pistol Options For Deep Carry (2023), 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). Pushing the SIG Sauer 77-grain OTM rounds to an average velocity of 2440 fps, the SIG Sauer ammunition, marked Match Grade Rifle, was still nevertheless well below the 2750 fps printed on the box. The 194-grain Lehigh Defense ME bullet was the only subsonic to expand. I want to buy a PDWWhat takes the cake? | Sniper's Hide Forum Before we get there, lets look at the concept of the personal-defense weapon (PDW). Our Suppressor Guru, seen here with a SIG Sauer SRD-762 on a SIG Rattler, provides some pointers. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308, https://www.surplusammo.com/categori-308-mags.html, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to For an AR, it conceals and transports incredibly well, is surprisingly soft-shooting, accurate and reliable, unique and fun. Springfield incorporates some nice accessories from Reptilia Corp. like the CQG pistol grip, which has a more vertical angle than the standard AR grip. Top 300 Blackout Pistol Options For Every Budget - Gun Digest All content is 2006-2015 Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association. Knowing this, I still was dubious when I picked up the PDW from my local FFL. The full-profile barrel creates a line that grows from a polymer handguard by Bravo Company that was flat on the sides, adorned with sections of pebbled finish for grip. I realize in the current climate you may have to take what you can get. We also liked the bead-blast finish on the barrel. From the beginning, we discovered an inordinate amount of creep in the trigger. They are dead to me. With the Saint Edge series of ARs, you get nicely sculpted lower receivers machined from billet aluminum. As far as apples to apples, do your research and see for yourself that you will get slightly better product with a Springfield compared to a sig, better coatings on barrel, BCG (both melonite) and a Nickel boron coated trigger. In addition, the fit and finish of the operational parts, most important the consistency of the trigger, makes this carbine worth the extra money. That's a $1000 dollar rifle and a good deal at that but you're getting gouged pretty bad at 1400. Springfield Armory Saint Victor. SIG MCX Rattler SBR . A late adopter of the AR, Springfield Armory has since risen to the top of mid-priced configurations. Thank you for that information, I really needed to know that. The result was more shots fired within the allotted time limit. The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. 300 AAC Blackout. If I did buy another SIG rifle it would be the 716 to replace my Victor .308 (most know my issues with this gun). More money for ammo, Fsatureless affords full capacity magazines, @bamaengineer may i ask why you would choose the Sig over the Saint? Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] Sig Sauer M400 Tread 5.56 NATO [MSRP $949] - 16 Stainless Steel Barrel, Free-Floating M-LOK Handguard, . The only difference are the built in QD mounts to any other lower. The first and third pics are the rifle I examined, but the second isn't. The buttstock, although appearing very much in the M4 tradition, was modified to offer holes on each side for a quick-detach sling loop. Like the MPX, the MCX uses a short-stroke gas piston system, which does away with the need for a buffer system, and the weapon can use a folding stock or no stock at all. M400 tread or Springfield saint victor : r/ar15 - reddit Built with a premium nickel boron coated trigger, forged carrier, enhanced Melonite coated carrier group and a pinned gas block, every rifle is built for ultimate reliability. | I have builds from BCM, Springfield, Noveske and PSA. You are using an out of date browser. Springfield XDM Elite 9mm! Is it better than Sig P320 and - YouTube I assumed shooting this gun would be like holding a concussion grenade in my teeth, but I was pleasantly surprised thanks to the Hate Brake. Comfortable to hold, the handguard offered the most versatility of our three rifles. To carry the Rattler discreetly, I used Eberlestocks Combat Office Brief, which represents a typical messenger bag, as well as several other covert packs in my inventory, including some camera bags. Probably, but not at 900 fps. They screwed up, realize it, and took care of the problem. The A-zone measured 11 inches tall and about 5.75 inches wide. Sure, but thats not its sweet spot. The Gunfighter grip offers an extended backstrap to shield the web of the hand and the knurled side panels that provided excellent traction. What sets the SIG MCX Rattler apart? SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD, Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16". But upon closer inspection, we noticed that the safety and magazine release were ambidextrous. Because I knew the velocity would be lacking, most of my chronographing was done with 5.56 NATO ammo, which runs a bit hotter. check out the. Barrel is Chromemoly Vanadium, Melonite coated inside and out, 1:8 twist and a NATO chamber. 7 Things You Need to Know Before Buying an AR Pistol Now more are jumping into the AR-15 market. With its A1 front-sight assembly, two-piece plastic handguard and M4 buttstock, the M400 Classic did not appear to be a carbine with the type of upgrades we were looking for. If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. they bring all the guns and you buy the ammo and have a blast . Ready to go where-ever it's needed, the MCX Rattler has a thin, foldable stock for easy concealment and stowage. Give a Gift Now, we all know stripped down versions just aren't going to cut it, so after adding a Trijicon MRO, SIG SRD 762 QD can, a Magpul vertical grip, a Parker Mountain Machines BCD, and don't forget a fully-loaded magazine of 220 grain subsonic rounds, we have ourselves a stout 9.4 pound setup. In use, it seemed to all but disappear. The Sig Rattler is only available with a 5.5 inch barrel, in 300 Blackout or 5.56mm. Saint Edge in .300 blackout? | The Armory Life Forum "If I'd known I'd live this long I'd have taken better care of myself.". Detent at the safety was heavy and secure without any rough edges. MCX-SPEAR . Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). I think I've driven myself mad with comparing the pros and cons. At 1,900 fps, youll still get a good permanent wound cavity, some temporary cavity and the ability to defeat armor in most cases. 8 of the Top ARs for the Money - Wide Open Spaces At first glance, the $1250 SIG Sauer RM400 Classic looked like a standard model with only a flat-top rail above the receiver to break up the profile. Hampering this a bit out of the box is a mil-spec clone trigger, easily rectified with your favorite upgrade model. models. Reader's Choice: Best AR-15 (Stock or Factory Model) - The Firearm Blog I mainly shoot at an indoor range. Can the SIG MCX Rattler do it? If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, it's perfect. We tested our 1:7/1:8-twist-barreled carbines with 60-grain V-Max 223 Remington rounds plus 5.56mm ammunition topped with 69-grain OTM (open-tipped match), 77-grain OTM, and 77-grain TMK (tipped Match King) rounds from Black Hills Ammunition. Support gear used:***Splatterburst Targetshttps://amzn.to/2Kera7g***Peltor Sport RangeGuard Hearing Protectionhttps://amzn.to/2LsLUbXThe Springfield XDM Elit. Depending on where you stand in the stabilization debate, this could prove a dealbreaker. This eliminates the crack that coincides with the bullet leaving the muzzle caused by the projectile breaking the sound barrier. It's The only Sig I have left I won't give up because I like it that much . Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Some big news for trigger pullers recently from the Civilian Marksmanship Program. The Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX had fully expanded by 7 inches, leaving a perfectly mushroomed bullet weighing 108 grains at 26 inches. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. According to the Sig Rep on ARFCOM: "6.75"/LVAW barrel was/is not made to be fired unsuppressed. The CMMG Mk4T was the tale of two rifles. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. Eventually, ammo manufacturers answered the call, and now dozens offer 300 Blackout loads for a variety of uses. 4. We also tested with 77-grain OTM 223 Remington rounds manufactured by SIG Sauer. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. The buttstock was adjustable for length by compressing the lower panel running in line with the buffer tube. But in spite of all that, I find myself wanting one, a lot. All Guns and Ammo subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. For more information on the SIG MCX Rattler, please visit SigSauer.com. SIG's Rattler pistols come with a 5.5 inch PDW threaded barrel and removable tool-less M-Lok Handguard. It opened up at about 3 inches and penetrated 12.7 inches, retaining 192.8 grains of its original bullet weight. We tend to the 7.5-inch SBA3 model, given its the rare smallster in the caliber that doesnt demand a kings ransom. So, as you can see, this is the ultimate platform for a protective detail, SWAT operations where concealability is paramount, or vehicle or home defense with responsible citizens.

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